(upbeat music)
-: Welcome to the Accessible Learning Experience
where we help you turn learning barriers
into learning opportunities.
If you're interested in learning more about efforts
to coordinate work around Universal Design for Learning
across states and to make it more systemic and sustainable,
this episode is for you.
CAST technical assistance specialist Michelle Soriano
has a great conversation with Zach Smith,
who as a senior project director at WestEd
leads a UDL deep-dive group as part of his work
on the National Center on Systemic Improvement.
Like the National AEM Center,
NCSI is funded through the Office
of Special Education Programs, or OSEP.
And its mission is to support state education agencies
in developing and improving their general supervision
and professional development systems
in order to better meet the needs of all students,
including students with disabilities and their families.
Here's Michelle with Zach.
-: Hey, Zach.
I'm so excited that you're able to join us today.
We're really looking forward to spending this time with you
and just digging in a little bit deeper.
So let's start out by getting to know your 'why',
what motivated you to pursue this work,
and what experiences have shaped your perspective on it?
-: Thanks, Michelle.
Yeah, that sounds like a great place to start.
So my why really is informed in a lot of ways by my family.
So I grew up in a home, I was the oldest of six kiddos.
All of my siblings are adopted, I'm the only biological.
And growing up in this family,
three of my siblings were adopted having Down syndrome,
and then two were adopted from Ethiopia.
So you can imagine our family photos were
really interesting for folks to make sense of.
So, and you know, so growing up,
seeing how I was experiencing school,
seeing the way that school came easier for me,
and then seeing my siblings experiences with school,
specifically the way that my mom and dad
had to really advocate in such heavy ways
for my siblings with Down syndrome
to be included in part of school communities,
it just always stood out to me.
It was always a point of conversation
around kitchen room, dining room tables.
And then, also to hear from my siblings who are Black,
hear about their stories and some
of their challenges within the classroom.
So maybe not having to make the case
for why they belonged in a general education classroom,
but instead, having to make the case why their culture
belonged in a general education classroom
or the ways that they would be welcomed,
as people being born in Ethiopia, to the classroom.
That all just stood out to me.
And so that's what led to quite a bit around my why
in wanting to go into education was really to think
about how can we do it differently?
How can we rethink some of the structures that we've put
in place so that they could be more inclusive?
I wanted to be a inclusion teacher who had
a general education degree, a special education degree,
but worked by and large around spaces,
making spaces integrate.
And I couldn't find a job.
So (chuckles) I couldn't find a place to work.
And so rather than kind of do the thing
that I always wanted to do,
I went in and became a special education teacher
in a self-contained classroom for a number of years
and really tried to build the types of schools,
build the types of positions that I always wanted
by connecting with general education teachers,
creating things to be more inclusive.
And that's where I found UDL.
That's where I found the power of UDL and accessibility
more broadly because I was looking for something
that wasn't necessarily based around special education,
wasn't necessarily thinking about a specific group
of students, but was more like,
how do we create a general experience that's inclusive
that a wide array of learners could access?
And that's where UDL, I found it back in 2007, 2008,
and it's stuck.
So that's, (laughs) hopefully that wasn't too long-winded,
but that's a bit of my origin story.
-: I love that.
You know, it's amazing to me how the journeys
that we all long for,
the things that we have in mind that we wanna do,
sometimes they don't pan out.
But you're put in the right spot at the right time
to really make that full circle to make that impact.
So really, really great story.
Thanks so much for sharing that.
Can you share with our listeners
a little bit about your role
with the National Center for Systemic Improvement?
-: For sure.
So I'm a senior project director at WestEd.
And as part of my role at WestEd,
I get to work at the National Center
for Systemic Improvement, NCSI.
And within that center,
I lead a deep-dive group that's like, think of,
we have an umbrella group called Evidence-Based Practices,
which is a learning collaborative.
And underneath that umbrella is a community
of SEA representatives interested in universal design.
And these SEA representatives,
State Education Agency representatives, are really focused
on what's called a deep-dive group,
really examining UDL implementation at the state level.
And so that's where I spend a lot of time
is within the evidence-based practices, and then,
specifically working around the deep-dive group,
deep-dive community in UDL.
I'm also a TA facilitator,
a technical assistance facilitator,
for several other SEAs and we work on broader,
kind of more overarching SEA-based needs
that come up through the center.
But some of my favorite stuff,
some of the things I get most excited about is
obviously the UDL work and kind of getting that coalition
of states together to work on some thorny issues
that they're working through in relation to UDL.
-: Whoop, whoop, I love this
because it's something that at the AEM Center,
we have been very fortunate to be able to partner
with NCSI in a few different ways.
But one of my absolute favorites is
that work with your state education agencies
and really supporting your center's intensive
technical assistant activities
with states that are implementing UDL and MTSS.
You know, that can get confusing for a lot of people.
Can you tell us more about the work?
-: Yeah, for sure.
So within our UDL deep-dive group,
we have about six states, and when I say states,
I'm talking about representatives from a state.
So they're coming in representing their state's efforts.
And we, as this kind of little coalition,
this little group of folks,
basically are in each other's practices.
So if I'm coming from a state
and I'm elevating,
"Okay, here's what I'm trying to do with UDL,"
and then, "Here's the way that I'm trying to do it.
"What do you think, Mississippi?"
"What do you think, Colorado?"
"What do you think, Massachusetts?"
"What feedback would you give me as you are doing this work,
but in a different context, but you're doing it similar...
we obviously have a similar goal."
So a lot of our conversation is centered around
or are centered around what are shared resources
that we can create together that would help us in our work?
And then, what are strategies or how can we pressure test
each other's ideas in a kind of safe place?
So, you know, as you can imagine,
it's wild out there
and states can be a little bit challenging as you think
through the different layers of the ecosystem.
And so having a place where I know
I'm not gonna be judged if I had a bad idea,
or there's not stakeholders behind this,
or constituencies behind this movement just yet,
I'm just trying to pressure test
and kind of workshop strategies,
it's really helpful to have this group to be able
to give their real thinking, their real ideas, too.
And then, when you talk about MTSS and UDL,
many of these states are kind of intertwined
in their implementation of UDL and MTSS,
where UDL provides that core Tier One instructional model
that's really sticky, really inclusive,
and captures a wide array of student needs and strengths.
So that then, when we think about Tier Two
and Tier Three supports that students may need
for different moments in their lives, it's not,
it's something that's sustainable.
It's something that's able to be provided in a way
where the system is meeting most students' needs
and elevating most students' strengths in Tier One
because of tools like UDL,
so that Tier Two and Tier Three can be targeted
around those students needing extra things
for maybe a period of time or a season.
So we really work through how do we message that?
How do we make sure that we're clear in our guidance?
And then also, when we're stuck,
how do we work together to be unstuck?
So that's been a big bulk of what we've been working on.
-: I love it, becoming unstuck together.
That just reaffirms that we are better together always.
And in thinking about that, it just made me wonder,
knowing that as a group of states,
you're always looking to learn
and you're looking at lessons learned.
Has there been any 'aha!' things that have
kind of popped up amongst the team that just interest you?
Or that you're like, "Hey, I didn't really consider this,
"but man, this is really great."
-: You know, we came into this experience saying like,
"Okay, we have a lot of UDL knowledge.
We have a lot of system thinking that we represent
within the organization, within NCSI."
And we're all about meeting states' needs,
listening to the states and connecting them together.
But maybe it wasn't, it was always emphasized,
but at least my orientation was,
"Well, let's make sure that they're clear on UDL,
and I know UDL really, really well."
And then, as we kind of went through the process
of getting to know states,
getting a sense of where they were in the implementation,
I quickly realized, "Oh my gosh,
these folks know what they're doing.
They know and have an understanding of where they wanna go.
They have a rigorous and high-level understanding
of what UDL is."
So it's less about me being a knowledge holder
and it's more about me being a connector.
Which was something that's foundational to NCSI.
But I think as I came into the organization,
it was something I really needed to experience
for myself to realize,
"Oh, that's where the power is in this is,
connecting states, asking questions,
giving states the floor to ask their own questions
because we're all so busy."
And that, I think is what has gotten me the most excited
about the UDL Deep-Dive group is
it's just a venue for that to happen.
We really coined the phrase, we didn't coin the phrase,
we stole the phrase, "the process is the product".
And that idea of like, you know, within the deep-dive group,
we're just asking as facilitators. So,
when a state, when we have deep-dive meetings together,
we try to include and have the states
be at the design table.
So if we're gonna talk about UDL,
we're gonna design with UDL.
And if we're gonna talk about working together as a team,
even the design pieces of it are what we do together.
And so that for me is just like such a powerful example
of the process being the product, and actually,
the design of the sessions being something
that the states can learn from,
the states can teach us stuff from within.
And I know it was a long-winded answer,
but that's the stuff that I get most excited about in terms
of thinking of the future is how do we continue
to elevate states and work shoulder-to-shoulder,
and hear from them them about what their needs are.
I think that's some of the big questions
that we're asking right now.
-: I love that.
Such a great detailed answer just to kind of help us
understand how it really works together.
And I kind of chuckled a little bit when you said,
"It's not about us being the holder of all the information."
And it just reminds me when I first started out,
I would go around telling everybody,
"You know what? It's ever-evolving."
The learning curve is straight up, right?
There is no curve to that learning
because it's constantly changing.
And what a powerful thing to have this group of states
where you can bounce things off each other
and just figure out the best way to approach things.
So speaking of evolving,
how do you see this work evolving over the next few years?
What emerging technologies or trends do you think will have
the biggest impact on how we design better systems?
-: So NCSI is a five-year cooperative agreement
funded by OSEP through the federal government.
And we're in year four and five.
So it's not just a conversation that's happening
at the local level of, you know, at UDL deep-dive group.
It's happening across the entire center.
So as long as we think about, as long as funding continues,
and as long as state interest is still there,
we're elevating that work.
We're elevating those things that states
really see as high leverage and important
in their journey in implementing IDEA.
So as we think about next steps for UDL,
we're following the same model.
So if state education agencies
continue to share interest and energy,
then we're gonna continue to make opportunities available
for states to network together
and to share each other's stories.
We really see the power of that being
what kind of is the secret sauce behind NCSI,
is following state need, following state interests,
with the end goal of satisfying both the letter
and the spirit of the law in IDEA,
and what IDEA is trying to accomplish within the system.
And so in terms of next steps,
I really think the next evolution is continuing
to ask the states what they need,
continuing to ask the states where they want
to collaborate together and what ways can we create
psychological safety within that collaboration.
And then, not being afraid to ask each other
those hard questions of like,
"Are we in fact living up to those goals
in those areas of focus?
And where can we as a center continue to respond
to what states are saying?"
So it's a question that we're really asking right now
at all layers of NCSI and all layers of our own practices
within the UDL deep-dive.
And so we're really excited about this exploration process.
-: That's amazing.
And so I know there's probably a lot
of people out there there who are like,
"Hey, you know what, this sounds amazing.
"How do I get me a piece of that pie?"
What advice do you have for individuals and organizations
who are just starting out with or looking for ways
to begin their journey with systemic improvement?
-: Yeah, I mean, I think it's such a great question.
And much of it centers around, first,
how you orient to the problems, right?
Because we're working in systems,
systems are comprised of people
and we all have different strengths and areas of need.
And so in thinking about the starting places,
are you gathering a cross disciplinary team
that represents where you know your strengths
and you know that the folks around your table
can supplement your needs?
And so you can think about this
in the most formal ways in terms
of gathering representatives from general education,
gathering representatives from special education,
gathering representatives from graduation
or supports for multilingual learners.
All of those folks being around a table
gives you a much more complete picture of a problem
and of the type of system you wanna build.
But even then, you have more of even the user perspective.
So gathering the folks that are
actually experiencing the end goals
and the end design elements of your system
and hearing from them what's working, what's not working.
So it really does matter, as I think about it,
in terms of who you're gathering at the table
and what spheres of influences do they represent?
And then, continuing within these groups,
within these organizations,
within this table to identify where you're going.
And how you're measuring that progress.
So creating a shared mission, vision, theory of action.
Outlining the big bets that you're trying to make
in terms of system change.
All of that is really important to get calibrated on
as you're thinking about this diversely represented table.
And it's important for everyone to use their voice
in order to inform those directions that you're heading.
And even the ways you're measuring
whether or not you're headed in that direction.
And then, I think part of the thing
that we're really working at in NCSI
and part of the thing that we're really working at
in across all levels, including the deep-dive group,
is thinking about the structures that reinforce
almost like a PSA cycle, a process for continuous learning,
a process for organizational learning.
Identifying like, (laughs)
we can't just set a plan, set a mission,
have a really great statement
of what we believe and where we're going.
And then, never revisit or never say,
"Hey, where did we learn stuff
"and where did we completely miss the mark?
"And what did we learn even when we did miss the mark?"
So this idea of you have to identify a structure
for continually learning along the way
and being able to make adjustments to the plan
as you learn more as you try stuff.
And so NCSI is full of resources to that end.
So strategies for coaching, strategies for system alignment.
We're doing book studies on coherence
and increasing the opportunity for parts
of an organization, parts of an SEA to work together.
But that's also something that we're trying
to practice what we preach with when it comes to the design
of NCSI and how we operate as an organization.
So those are some of the ideas around
where we wanna head is we wanna continue
to get better at that and get better at thinking
across that diversely represented table.
-: Fantastic.
I can so relate to the idea of, you know,
who are you bringing to the table?
At the AEM Center,
we consider that to be a huge piece
of what we call the coordinated system.
And so it's just really reflecting on,
"Hey, do you have all the experts, all of the individuals,
all of the knowledge seekers,
the learners that you need to at this table?"
And speaking of having people at the table
and being able to reach out,
how can people stay in touch with you?
Where can they find you?
-: Yeah, thanks, Michelle.
So I'm on Twitter, @zsmithteach.
NCSI is also on Twitter, @theNCSI.
And it's also on LinkedIn.
And then, WestEd also is @WestEd,
which is nice 'cause it's simple, on Twitter.
And it also has its own LinkedIn.
So any of those ways, we'd be more than happy to connect.
And then, my email is zsmith@wested.org.
And I'd also be happy to get an email from folks too,
if there's any way that I can be helpful.
-: Woo, yes, there's tons of ways
that we can communicate with you.
And just know that we've also dropped those
with all the resources for the podcast as well.
Zach, it has been phenomenal.
Thank you so much for spending this time with us,
helping us to get to understand systemic improvement
and the great work that you're doing with the six SEAs,
NCSI, and WestEd.
Thanks again.
-: Thanks for tuning in to this episode
of the Accessible Learning Experience,
brought to you by the National Center
on Accessible Educational Materials at CAST.
You can find us on the web at aem.cast.org.
There you'll find show notes with links to all
of the resources mentioned on each episode.
Thanks again for listening, and remember,
accessibility is everyone's responsibility.
(upbeat music)
The contents of this podcast were developed
under a cooperative agreement
with the US Department of Education.
However, those contents do not necessarily represent
the policy of the US Department of Education
and you should not assume endorsement
by the federal government.