(upbeat music)
-: Welcome to the Accessible Learning Experience,
where we help you turn learning barriers
into learning opportunities.
In this episode AEM Center TA specialist Michelle Soriano
chats with Cathy Fortney, Jason Adams and April Burton
from the Francis Howell School District in Missouri.
Cathy, Jason, and April share lots of great tips
and insights related to the procurement process
for accessible educational materials
and technologies within their district.
I think you'll hear during this interview
how passionate they are and how well they work together
to ensure that all students
who need accessible educational materials
within their district have them in a timely manner.
Throughout this episode,
you'll hear references to the CAST website.
The specific CAST website being mentioned is the one
for the National Center on Accessible Educational Materials
or AEM Center at CAST.
You'll find that website at aem.cast.org,
and we really encourage you to visit
and check out the show notes
for the resources Cathy mentions at the end of this episode,
including the AEM Pilot,
the Quality Indicators for the Provision of AEM
and other resources that will help you
with vetting for accessibility.
All right, Michelle, take it away.
-: Hi April, Jason and Cathy,
we are so thrilled to have you join us for this podcast.
Let's start off by having each of you tell us
a little bit about yourselves.
-: Well, I'll go ahead and start.
So my name is April Burton
and I am an instructional technology content leader
for the Francis Howell School District.
So I really primarily help provide professional development
for our teachers focused on technology.
-: My name is Jason Adams.
I'm the technology services manager for the district,
and I oversee the, I guess,
the end user experience for our teachers and students
as well as manage our inventory that we have.
-: And I am Cathy Fortney.
I am a coordinator for occupational and physical therapy,
assistive technology and ADA compliance
for the Francis Howell School District.
-: So how did you all come to work on accessibility together?
-: So, I don't know if you've picked up
on Cathy's conversational style,
but she is very, very, very passionate about accessibility
and helping every student succeed.
And it is almost impossible to say no to her.
So the way that I think the three of us came
to work together is just her saying,
"You will be a part of this.
You will help us and we will make this better."
So we've been working together for a few years now.
I've known Cathy for 10 years
and she's a force to be reckoned with
and God help you if you say no to her.
-: I would definitely agree on all accounts
of what Jason just said.
It is very difficult to say no to Cathy,
but she's like true to her heart.
It is difficult to say no to helping all kids succeed.
And that's really the root of it.
I was a classroom teacher for 15 years and I saw firsthand
the power and how students, all students want to succeed.
And when we take away those barriers
to where they can succeed
and in times when maybe they weren't able
to because of whatever reason was inhibiting them,
it is so powerful and it just changes that dynamic.
And that's what we're here for.
We're here to help all of our students succeed
and Cathy knows that and she knows how to pull
the right people in the room and she knows
how to get things done.
And so, it's very easy
to also be passionate about that work.
-: So I'm just gonna say I'm a much nicer person,
than they would lead you to believe.
No, I am not afraid to have those conversations,
but I will say too that I am really blessed to be able
to work with people who really are passionate
the same way that I am.
They act like I'm the one,
but I'm telling you there's a lot of passion here
and I love when people get excited about the things
that can help kids succeed.
I am an occupational therapist by trade.
I got into this line of work because I love the people
in life that don't give up.
And when there are roadblocks to success,
I love when people say, okay,
but let's just do it a different way.
Let's just try it a different way.
We can still get there, right?
And so that continual move toward independence
as independent as kids can be,
and their self-advocacy and self-esteem around
what they can do, even if it's in a slightly different way,
doesn't matter, they can still do it.
That is something that's a shared philosophy
with the other people that are on this podcast
and I hear it and there's an enthusiasm and an excitement.
So it's just a thrill to be able to find other people
who are willing to take on the challenge,
to really take on the challenge
because it's a challenge worth taking.
It's the thing that can make or break whether
or not a student thinks they can succeed in life.
And that's important work.
So I'm just really, I'm very fortunate and very thankful
that I get to work with a great team.
-: Cathy, let's start with you.
What is your working definition of accessibility?
-: Yeah, so I thought a little bit about this
and kind of the low hanging fruit I guess
is it's about access.
So really equal access to the environment
and really anything that a student is gonna do
in that environment.
I think the one thing that is super important is to realize
that that's gonna look different for everybody,
but we wanna be sure that every student has the ability
to have meaningful engagement
with really everything that they do.
So whatever we're putting in front of a student,
whatever we're asking them to interact with,
we need to be sure that that can be done
in a meaningful way.
Now that can be accomplished using different methods
or different tools,
but it really has to be a level of robust.
It really has to be a level of this is really
at the same level that everybody else is getting information
and really it's best approach if we can kind of look at it
in a universal design for learning.
So those tools are available just to any student
and the formats are in a way
that they can be easily accessed.
So on the front end, if we do our work,
then on the back end it just is seamless
and students can just access what they need.
-: I love it, I'm hearing that access,
I'm hearing learner variability and I'm really excited
to hear about that high rigorous level
for all of the kiddos.
Why is the idea of access important for students
with disabilities?
Jason, what do you think?
-: You know, we are a public education institution
and we need to show our community
that we're open for everyone,
no matter what your walk of life is.
If you are in our community,
you deserve to get the same level of education
as your peers.
So if you have a disability or not,
we wanna make sure that we give you the same tools
that are available to everyone.
And I'm just gonna brag on our district
for a second.
We have an incredible visually impaired program
and we've heard many, many times that families move
from out of district to our district
just because of the level of access
that we give those students.
So we wanna make sure that we are being consistent
with everyone that comes in with the devices
and the technology that they have.
And we also need to recognize that technology
should not be a hurdle,
that's for students with disabilities,
students without disabilities.
So we don't want people to see technology as a hurdle.
If it can be removed, it should be, sometimes it can't be,
sometimes we can only just lower that hurdle
so it makes things easier for those students.
-: Shout out to Francis Howell in Missouri,
the school district, that's fabulous.
April, what do you think about that?
-: Well, if you walk into any classroom across our district
from our littles all the way up through our high schools,
you're gonna see all kinds of learners.
So every student comes to us with different needs,
different abilities,
and we wanna make sure that we meet all of those students
where they are and really they all deserve that
and it really makes for a much more pleasant atmosphere
when everyone's needs are being met.
Because if you think about it,
if a student is bored or things aren't working for him
or her, that's when they start to act out
or when they start to check out
and it becomes more of a behavior issue
than really a learning issue.
So we wanna make sure that we're meeting all of our students
where they're at.
-: Love that, access really does impact everything.
So we've been talking about access,
we've been talking about Francis Howell School District.
Let's start digging a little bit deeper.
Tell us about how Francis Howell has approached improving
access through how they purchase curriculum
and materials.
-: I could speak to that, so this is Cathy.
So whenever we're considering purchase of new materials,
we've really started a process of being sure
that on the front end,
we are including the correct language and the expectations
that our district has for accessibility.
So what that means is every time
that we're looking at something new for curriculum,
we're having those conversations with those people
that are making the decisions
and we're asking them to include conversations
with the vendors about we wanna be sure that we have
the NIMAC version of any print materials.
We wanna be sure that we have asked for the VPAT
for any digital materials and that language
is included in any purchase order or any RFP that goes out.
So that's important.
The more that we ask, the more that the vendors know
that this is an expectation that Francis Howell has.
So a lot of times too,
we'll have these conversations every year
with the individuals who are purchasing curriculum
and we ask them every year to try the very best
that they can to back up the timeline.
The importance of that is that the sooner
that we can know what the materials are,
the sooner that we can vet the materials
and the sooner we can be sure that we get
that process going,
to get an alternative format if we need to.
So that all of those things together
make a more fluid process.
I do think in the future we would like to really talk about
even more screening in a better vetting process,
hopefully getting some end users in to be able to screen
those kinds of things and give us feedback,
give the vendors feedback about the specific issues
around accessibility.
-: So Cathy, we love acronyms in education
and you just mentioned a couple of them
that are really great and I'm wondering if you can clarify
what those acronyms stand for.
So we have VPAT, NIMAC, RFP.
-: Absolutely, yes, we do love us some acronyms.
So VPAT is a voluntary product accessibility template
and that is something that we ask for
when we're talking about digital materials.
That gives us an accessibility rating of digital materials.
Okay, so the next one was NIMAC
and that is National Instructional Materials Access Center.
And that is where any kind of print materials are sent
to make sure that we have a digital format
of that print material.
So like a textbook would go there
and we could then access the digital form of that.
And then an RFP is request for proposal.
So that's anytime we are going out
to purchase new materials,
we are gonna want information from the vendors
and we are gonna ask for a request for proposal.
-: Excellent, thanks so much.
And I had one more question
'cause I'm wondering about individuals
who are interested in this language that you're providing
to vendors and how they might go about maybe,
is there a support that you're using that has guided you
and your team through this?
-: Absolutely, I'm so glad you asked that
and I can't believe I didn't mention it,
but actually we just go out to the CAST website.
There is a place there that gives you the specific language,
literally we copy and paste it,
we just tell folks copy and paste that,
it's exactly the way it needs to be said.
And we just put that right into those documents
whenever we're sending them off to vendors.
-: Fabulous, thanks so much for that clarification.
April, do you have anything that you'd like to add
to this area?
-: Well, in all of our different curriculum areas
and all of the different levels of students
from our younger to our older,
there's a lot of hands in there
that are purchasing resources for instruction.
And so we are just,
I'm making sure that the right people are at the table
having those conversations that we're constantly bringing up
the need to ask our vendors and just making sure
that we're holding those vendors accountable
and showing our teachers
and those people who are at the table
that this is how our students can access
these accessibility tools.
So making sure that it's one thing to make,
to ask, does your product have these tools within them?
But if our teachers don't know how to use them
and we're not constantly sitting down with teachers
and showing them, oh, look at what this does
and how this can support all of the learners in your room.
So we're just constantly bringing it up really.
I mean sometimes it feels like we're nagging people like,
oh here they are, again, talking about accessibility,
but it is so beneficial for all students.
-: And Jason, knowing that you're one
of the technology leaders in the district,
is there a specific perspective that y'all have approached
this through technology?
-: Yeah, so the most important thing that we've realized
is technology is not a one size fit all for students,
nor should it be.
So all of our students that have disabilities
have a case manager and those case managers know
what works best for those students.
So we are not a one time shop
for different types of devices.
We have Macs, we have PCs, Chromebooks, iPads,
anything with a power button, we tend to get it.
So when the case managers reach out, they may say that, hey,
this student with visual impairment might benefit
from a larger screen PC or this student
that has trouble communicating might benefit
from an iPad Pro with some of those apps that allow
the student to tap on the individual words
that they're trying to communicate with.
So working with those different teams allows us to pair
the correct device with the student
that's gonna benefit from it.
The other thing that we've realized over the years
is we want to make sure that the technology services
are as seamless as possible.
We don't want a student to feel singled out or separate
from their peers when they access that information.
So a good example of that is the standardized testing
that we do in the state of Missouri, our map test,
we used to have an accommodation for text to speech
and that was something
that had to be set up for individual students
and we realized that that really should be a service
that's available to all our students if they so so choose.
So having that available means that one student
that may not want to identify themselves
as having a specific need no longer feels in the spotlight.
They're accessing the same features that their peers
and their fellow classmates have.
-: How do you purchase technology at Francis Howell?
-: Our buildings, our departments,
we are always looking to add technology
to our schools and our students.
So we might have individual schools purchase technology
on their own.
We might have a pretty significant order.
We'll go out for RFP as Cathy mentioned earlier,
and we try and get those devices in as quickly as possible.
The one challenge that we did see the same
as any organization across the world last couple of years
is the supply chain and just how long it takes
to get equipment in.
And when we're ordering in carts of Chromebooks
for just general ed classrooms
and it takes forever to come in, it's an inconvenience,
but there's a way to get over it.
But when we're waiting for months for a large screen laptop
or a iPad that's gonna help a student communicate.
If it's taking months for that to come in,
it's not an inconvenience, it's a pretty big problem.
And a lot of those devices we purchase
within assistive technology grant
and we found one little cheat that has helped us out
in this regard and that is purchasing equipment
in ahead of time.
So knowing that we probably wanna have
a few iPads on hand,
we probably do wanna have some large screen laptops in hand
so they're ready to go.
We've purchased those in to have right now,
and then when a student has a need for it,
then we approach the assistive technology people
to get reimbursed for that grant.
So it's a win-win all around.
-: Wow, this is fabulous.
What an amazing team to come together
from all these different perspectives
and really look at access in that manner.
So the big question,
how has this process impacted how the district
will purchase curriculum and materials moving forward?
-: Well, I can speak to that.
I think that we all just have a general increased awareness.
I think as we're having conversations we've realized
that really everybody across departments needs
to be at the table.
We, I think that we started out with that
with the ADA advisory committee, just kinda,
we had that committee together anyway,
and we realized we all have different pieces of information.
So the more that we can have those cross conversations,
there's just that increased awareness across the board.
So anytime we're purchasing,
anytime that we're considering a new curriculum,
anytime that we're going out
for technology bid, for anything,
we need to really have that
as part of the consideration process.
So just having the conversations.
I think sometimes it's overwhelming because it's a lot,
they're just a lot, there's a lot of departments,
there's a lot of people in a school district.
I think sometimes it's overwhelming.
I will tell folks all the time what I tell my kids at home
when they look at a big mess in the house and they're like,
I don't know where to start.
I just tell them, "Do something."
Just do something.
Anything you can do toward a solution is progress.
So any little tiny move that you make,
any conversation that you have,
any meeting that you invite yourself to
is a step toward being better.
And we can always be better as far
as making this environment better for students.
-: And one thing I'll add to that
is it's not always adding a new step
that can improve something.
Looking at your existing processes and procedures
and improving upon them are also very important.
So a good example of that
is we have a technology authorization procedure
where individual schools and departments will consider
the devices that they wanna purchase
and they go through an approval purchase to make sure
that it's being budgeted correctly
and they're purchasing appropriate devices
and it's just gonna work fine for the environment.
It gives us a chance to hit the pause button,
just take a step back and look at that individual purchase.
Not just from should we make the purchase,
but has everyone considered the implications and the things
that we need to consider before moving ahead
with the purchase as it pertains to accessibility.
And that allows us to just achieve both those goals
at the same time instead of coming up
with a whole new procedure.
-: Wow. I just heard so many great things. I heard just
start. I heard look at the routines and procedures
and the processes that are already in place
and see how you can improve on those.
And I also said, don't, I heard, "Don't stop there."
Once you get them trained,
make sure everybody knows how to use it.
We know we have other district teams
who are really listening in on how they too can expand
and improve on access.
So, where might you suggest that they start?
-: So I can start at least.
I think that they start by having conversations
with just really anybody that they can,
make sure that they're part of the processes.
A lot of times if there's a committee or something going on
to determine possible purchases, a lot of times we,
everybody that's on this podcast will say,
"Hey, do you mind if I just sit in on that?
I might have something to add."
Rarely does somebody say, no, you can't come to our meeting.
So a lot of times just having those conversations
or starting those conversations is really important.
But I also think starting with a mindset of everyone,
so that Universal Design for Learning...
We need to do a better job of making sure
that any of the things that we're putting
in front of students are accessible in the way
that we talked about that's meaningful.
They can engage with them purposefully and they can do it
in a way that they're comfortable with.
And it doesn't seem weird because we've now just said,
"Here are some tools that work for everybody."
We've had a mindset of that over the years
and it's worked well pointing out to students
what accessibility features are there
so that they're aware of them.
Classroom teachers, just telling all the students
about those features so that everybody knows
that those are available.
We have some things that are pushed out centrally,
some literacy support tools that just kind of show up
in a Google Chrome extension and there they are.
And if a student needs them, they can use them.
So when you make it less different, it works for everybody.
-: And I can piggyback off of that as well because,
so once we've done our homework and we've made sure
that the devices and the programs that we have procured
do have the tools that we want to use with students
to make sure that everyone's needs are met,
we also need to take a step back
in the instructional design process.
So that goes down to just helping teachers to think forward
when they're going to create a video, for example,
for instruction,
are we making sure that we're putting in subtitles?
Or when we're designing a quiz?
So we are in our second year of a Canvas LMS adoption.
And that allows us to have all
of these different wonderful features
that all of our students can take advantage of,
all of these accessibility tools.
But we need to make sure that our teachers are thinking of,
well, when I'm gonna design a quiz,
which tools do I have at my fingertips
that have these accessibility features
to accommodate all the needs in my classroom?
So we're just making sure
that after we have purchased, made these purchases,
are we then making the next step
of making some sound instructional decisions
in our classrooms?
-: And another thing
that people should really bear in mind is,
Cathy mentioned this earlier that, oh no,
it's not this person.
Again, there really shouldn't be the one person
that kind of holds up the stop sign
and says, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
have you considered this?
And we go all the way back to the drawing board.
The drawing board should always include a wide number
of people that can view things from different lenses.
We wanna make sure that everyone is part of the team.
You don't want one person to kind
of be that information holder.
Everyone should be looking at every purchase as,
is this accessible for everyone?
Can everyone participate?
Can everyone get involved?
And if no one is saying anything,
maybe you need to include more people in those conversations
instead of just going all the way forward in that process,
get the device in, just to find out that
that one student that really wants to participate
just doesn't have that opportunity to.
-: So it's truly a team effort, it's truly coming together.
And what I've heard throughout the theme of this podcast
is really looking at it from a universal standpoint.
And we know that a universal standpoint,
you can't have it without looking at access
and ensuring accessibility for all of the kiddos.
Last question.
What additional resources can you point individuals to
to help them navigate through this process?
-: So I would say for sure,
CAST, the website has just been phenomenal.
So anything on the website
around accessible educational materials,
I just can't say enough about it.
There is something called the AEM Pilot.
It's Quality Indicators.
It really helps a team to know
where they are in the process, know the next steps to take,
and really helps keep you on track.
So there's always a way to move forward.
And that AEM Pilot,
the Quality Indicators, really just helps you know,
really just the next step.
So I would really encourage people to look for that.
I think it will help you really just frame
what you need to be working on.
-: Excellent, so yeah,
there's great Quality Indicators located
on the website underneath the Coordinate tab.
And so those Quality Indicators can support individuals
as they're looking at building these coordinated systems.
And you mentioned the AEM Pilot,
which would you say that supports you
in developing a roadmap?
-: Absolutely, I think this is so big.
Sometimes you really just don't have any idea
where to start.
And it really helps define all the expectations
along the way,
both from the individual level all the way up
just to the system level.
So that is a great place to start
and it's a good conversation to have
with a lot of individuals in the room,
it just guides the process.
-: Fantastic information.
Thank you all so much for taking us through your journey
as you've looked at improving access
through purchasing the curriculum
and the conversations that you've had.
And we can't wait to see how others take this
and really look at exploring this journey on their own.
-: Thanks for tuning in to this episode
of the Accessible Learning Experience,
brought to you by the National Center
on Accessible Educational Materials at CAST.
You can find us on the web at aem.cast.org.
There you'll find show notes with links
to all of the resources mentioned on each episode.
Thanks again for listening and remember,
accessibility is everyone's responsibility.
The contents of this podcast were developed
under cooperative agreement
with the US Department of Education.
However, those contents do not necessarily represent
the policy of the US Department of Education,
and you should not assume endorsement
by the federal government.